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Jan 18, 2025
Devolution and the Future of Broxbourne: Exclusive with Cllr Mark Mills-Bishop
Devolution and the Future of Broxbourne: Exclusive with Cllr Mark Mills-Bishop
00:00
52:37
Transcript
0:00
[gentle music] Welcome to the Media Town Voices Podcast, where we bring the hearts and stories of Hertfordshire and beyond straight to your ears.
0:08
I'm your host, Emeka Ogbonnaya, and today we have an extraordinary episode lined up for you.
0:14
We're joined by Councillor Mark Mills Bishop, the two-time leader of Broxbourne Borough Council, to share his views and position on devolution and to delve into the rich heritage of Broxbourne from his unique perspective as a seasoned leader.
0:29
At Media Town Voices Podcast, we celebrate what makes our town vibrant and unique by connecting you to the stories that matter most.
0:37
So grab a cuppa and get ready for an enlightening conversation that's equal parts history, insights, and vision for our community's future. Let's dive in. [gentle music] Hello, Councillor. Good morning. Good morning.
0:53
Just to finish off that before I sort of talk about my role here, the reason for talking is about devolution.
1:01
You know, that, that is the main thing, but part of my responsibility, and, and I was gonna highlight it to what I think is being honest, open and transparent about it, is... And I was saying about the SEND issue. Yeah.
1:13
Special educational needs and disabilities, of which I am responsible for on a countywide basis, and I was brought in to turn around the core report that the county had on SEND issues.
1:28
And one of the first things I said at the beginning when I addressed parents and, uh, practitioners was that, "You know, we are sorry, and we need to be honest, open and transparent about that." Yeah.
1:40
"And we will turn it around. It will take time, but we will turn it around."
1:45
So to come here as leader of Broxbourne Borough Council was something which I did not anticipate, and had to have a great deal of thought about it, because I was leader of Broxbourne Borough Council 10 years ago.
2:00
10 years ago.
2:02
So after five years as being the leader and I had done what I wanted to do, and that was to position the borough through its local plan, which was then approved, and all the issues that I had in the local plan would then come to fruition in time because it was a local plan up to 2032.
2:28
And we can see it today, a lot of it is beginning to come through now, you see.
2:34
So, and that allows me, having been leader five years and positioned the borough, that it was time for me to say, "I will hand over," and I wanted to forge something at County Hall, of which I was a county councillor for.
2:50
Mm-hmm. And that allowed me to do a lot more at County Hall than just be a backbencher.
2:55
And so when I went up there, I was fortunate enough to be given the position, and the rest is history really, because last year I was quite comfortable being the vice chairman of the county council, and suddenly
3:11
the incumbent that I handed over to, Lewis Cocking, became the MP for the borough. And people came to me, the men and women in gray suits came to see me and said, would I consider returning?
3:27
Which was a bit of an ouch for me because it, it hadn't crossed my mind and, you know, I had to ask my wife.
3:34
[chuckles] There's a lot to go, a lot to do, but fortunately, you know, I'm retired, fortunately my children have grown up and moved on. My wife is still working, so you know, so there, there was a possibility.
3:50
So I was then elected in May, oh, sorry, last May- Yeah... as the leader of the borough again.
3:59
And a number of issues that I then had to deal with, and I'm very pleased and very proud, you know, to be the on- the first person ever to come back as leader- To return... to return. 'Cause leaders don't return.
4:14
They go out elsewhere and return. Or go somewhere else and do something else.
4:18
You know, so it's a great honor and great privilege, and I'm very proud to lead the borough again, particularly in a difficult time as we are now approaching. Yeah.
4:29
And that's what I wanted to come onto and for you to dissect, if you like. Now, I've read some of your pieces that you've done on devolution- Yeah... and I was very impressed with it. All right.
4:40
Very impressed with it, because it set out quite clearly a lot of the, uh, potential and possibilities. The government had always talked about devolution in their manifesto. Manifesto, yeah.
4:54
But local government reorganization, they hadn't talked about in their manifesto. That was an add-on to the white paper that came out on the 16th of December. Mm-hmm.
5:07
Now, what was different this time round than it was under a previous government back in 2020,
5:15
was that they were very keen on devolution in certain areas or whatever, but the difference being was that it was take it or leave it. You know, they would encourage it, take it or leave it.
5:27
And at that time in 2020, and I was party to that at County Hall, the Herts County Council as the tier authority, the head tier authority,
5:39
had expressed an interest that they would like to be a single unitary authority at that time, and it was discussed and it was thrown out- Mm... and it never came to fruition.
5:49
And that was the kind of policy, if you like, it was a directive from the government, take it or leave it, and some authorities did around the country. Well, the metropolitan type- Metropolitan authorities...
6:00
authorities did, and they were quite happy with that arrangement. So in principle, I'm not against it, but it's not right for HertfordshireAnd it's definitely not right for, for Broxbourne.
6:11
That was my position then, that is my position now. So when the white paper came out at the end of December- Yeah... just before Christmas, and it was anticipated or highly awaited for,
6:24
the difference was that you would be compelled- Yeah... yeah, under law to become part of- Part of, yeah... a combined authority, devolved authority.
6:40
And when you read it would mean the abolition of all the councils and districts in the county, including Broxbourne. Yeah.
6:55
Which is completely, utterly untenable as far as I'm concerned. Because I would like to think that Broxbourne is a beacon, it's an award-winning borough in its own right. It's a stellar performer.
7:10
We are, you know, not a, an authority that is, uh, financially difficult, in difficulties at all.
7:18
Uh, we, uh, are the lowest council tax in the country for this area, for the whole country, and we have, you know, an entrepreneurial spirit, and we have big developments going on, and we're moving forward at a pace that the residents want, and they're satisfied with that.
7:39
In fact, they're so satisfied that for the past 50 years, they have always returned the leading authority at the moment- Yeah... for the last 50 years.
7:52
And not only that, in times when there were difficulties, we have risen above that, you know, from national government, and held our own more than we could ever hope for.
8:05
So if you look at the majority that I lead, we have 30 councillors, we have three opposition, we have 27 of the ruling group. So I have 27 councillors of the ruling group. Much more than anybody else across the county.
8:22
So when the white paper came out, the leader of Herts County Council had expressed, uh, a desire that he would join what they call the fast tracking.
8:34
So that if you applied before a certain date, the 10th of January- Yeah... to become a devolved authority, then, uh, the government will look, look on it- Okay... uh, favorably, and it would be fast-tracked through.
8:50
So all this would be, uh, uh, in place by next year. That's how fast track it was. And would've meant potentially that the,
9:03
uh, elections due in May for the county would be postponed to allow the drop-in, if you like, for next year of the new devolved authority.
9:13
Now, the devolved authority government's preference is a combined authority, so you combine with another authority, and we have certain authorities around us.
9:26
When I say authorities around us, I mean the tier authorities, the higher tier, not the lower tier, you know, as I am.
9:33
So, you know, there's obvious ones like Cambridge or Peterborough or, you know, something like that you combine with to make up an electorate of something like 1.5 million, which was the government's preferred number to make it effective.
9:50
But the county council wanted to put in on the fast tracking as a single unitary authority of Hertfordshire standalone, and they felt that they could give a good case, if you like, as an exception to perhaps what the government would want.
10:10
But the problem there was, just before Christmas, that no consultation had been done. No thought had been given done to a group of stakeholders.
10:20
No real, uh, evidence producing had been made to say that Hertfordshire was right for that type of thing, you know, as a single unitary authority or with a combined u-unitary authority with an elective mayor.
10:35
So all the decision-making would be dealt by the mayor, and you won't need all the unitaries under, um, uh, districts and boroughs. You know, they would be consumed into the big, into the big authority.
10:50
That's the one you really said no to. You stood against. So I said, "No." No, I gave a speech here. I said, uh, evoked somebody from years ago and said, "No, no, no." Correct that, yeah.
11:05
That is not is what the residents here want. I was not elected by the people of this borough with a mandate to abolish it. As simple as that. I wasn't elect... If the people of the borough tell me,
11:23
yep, they want to abolish it, then it's a different story. But I wasn't... Until we go out to the people, then I don't know. But my guess is, because they elect
11:37
my administration time and time and time and time again for the last 50 years, ever since local government has been reformed back in 1974. It's our 50th year, but even go back before that, you know.
11:53
I wasn't elected for that. And of course, my members here elect me as their leader, and I have no mandate to abolish their view, you see, unless they tell me so, and they're not telling me so. So we have a difficulty.
12:09
I met with my colleagues-Around the county. So all the leaders of the 10 authorities, including me, we met, and unanimously, and I think you know that we issued a letter saying, "No, not yet.
12:23
I'm not against the principle. If people want, you know, of, of, of a devolved, uh, administration, I'm not against that at all, but not for here."
12:33
So it needed more talk and definitely do not send in a letter saying that we're going to be in the first wave.
12:41
There are a lot of other authorities who have now gone into the first wave, I think Essex is one as a county, but they've been building to it, I think for over a number of months or years, you know, to be
12:56
ready or whatever it is, you know, to do that. And if that's right for their people and that's what they want, then okay. I want decisions to be made locally by the people.
13:08
I accept there are going to be strategic- To make a decision... uh, decisions to be taken. But I don't want Mrs Brown, who lives in Rosedale,
13:18
to have a decision made about her extension by somebody in another authority miles away who knows nothing about this particular area.
13:27
You know, so it's local representation, local accountability, and local decisions being taken on the ground. And we work very well at the moment with transport and social care and children's care at a county level.
13:42
We work in unison on that. But for things for the development of this borough must be taken by the people who are elected to represent the residents here, and that is my bottom line.
13:56
Until we know more, then we don't move forward as far as I'm concerned. So the, the county decided not to put in the fast tracking. For the first wave. Yeah, for the first wave.
14:10
So they will then join the second wave once the government get round to it, and it pushes it a bit further down the line. But it does allow for evidence gathering. It allows that consultation with stakeholders.
14:26
It allows that consultation with residents and other partners to see what is the best fit. Is the evidence pointing to a single unitary authority? 'Cause that is still the aim. Yeah.
14:40
That is still the aim of the county, and we are now evidence gathering. More information... And of course, a lot of information that hasn't come out yet from the government.
14:51
More information is coming out from the minister at the end of January. So it's a question of working towards a sensible solution to this.
15:02
But my view at the moment is no to devolution, no to a single unitary authority under that, and we'll look at other information that comes to light.
15:13
But we will do nothing at the moment until I get mu-much more information, particularly from residents. I'm on their side.
15:22
I want them to support me and my stance, and I will fight and fight and fight for Broxbourne Borough Council. By any measure, we are a stellar borough. Can't say much more than that at this time.
15:36
But I wanted, you know, and I'm very anxious to speak to you. You're the first one I've spoken to, so if you talk about an exclusive interview- Yeah... then you've got it. I am meeting other reporters as well, um,
15:54
because I want to make it absolutely crystal clear of where I'm coming from, where the borough is. Uh, and until such time, if they, you know...
16:03
Clearly, if it's not liked, then there is an opportunity for the public to vote. Yeah. So at this stage, there'll be a consultation with the residents, and then things will come much later, later on.
16:18
But, uh, I mean, a number of people I've spoken to, colleagues, some residents, some groups, very against that. They want to remain Broxbourne Borough Council. I cannot think
16:31
of a moment where there is not Broxbourne Borough Council, where residents who live in the borough can come in and- Come in... have a moan, say, "Well done," or whatever it might be, that they can't then come in here.
16:47
They have to deal with something, you know, too far away, too remote to the- their needs and what they want. And, you know, and that is where I'm coming from, and that is what I'm passionate about.
16:59
I've lived in this borough, what, 40 years now. I've been its leader twice. I've been its mayor as well, and, you know, I live and breathe Broxbourne Borough Council. This is my home. This is where I work.
17:14
This is where my kids went to school here and grew up here. It's where they will come back when they get to my age and go down memory lane and say, "Oh, I remember that. I remember that." "My dad used to be mayor."
17:24
"That's where I went and had my first cigarette," or when... You know. You know, and it's home. Yeah. And we are renowned, I like to think, you know, for bucking the trend.
17:34
We always have the trend and, you know, even when we had the general election and my colleagues around the country were falling like nine pins, we didn't.
17:47
We retained Lewis Cocking to follow in Sir Charles Walker's footsteps, you know, for that, for our party, you know, where everybody else was falling, because we had a message to give, that people trust us, accept us, and we are honest, open, and transparent.
18:04
Always have been, and that is a key hallmark. So now you may have some questions. You may- I do, I do have some questions. Go. Thank you very much for that. So that's my piece. Yes. Your piece is, were received.
18:14
Thank you very muchI mean, I really wanna say thank you for this opportunity to speak to us.
18:20
I think you, you as a leader of, uh, Broxbourne Council, you've had significant impact in shaping our Broxbourne policies and the vision for the future.
18:28
And I think, like you've already said, the, the, the residents having that opportunity to say, "Look, we would like to have you back," obviously confirms that.
18:37
I think you've also shown that you'd be very critical in developing some of this economic development plan within Broxbourne and the, the, obviously, the operations that how the council is itself runs shows up how incredibly good you are, and obviously your colleagues obv- also attest to that.
18:57
But given th-th-th-this commitment you have around localism, you know, community engagement, and your cautious approach to structural changes that potentially will affect us as residents,
19:11
how keen are you that you can actually retain this ambition with these governmental take it or leave it, a- and the requirement that you have to meet certain minimum threshold?
19:24
How can we achieve that while retaining Broxbourne Borough Council? How do you think that can, can work? Yeah. W-well, two things there.
19:34
One is about search the evidence is me, my colleagues, the council producing the evidence to show that we can fulfill whatever the government's requirements are because at the end of the day, you know, we have to align ourselves to whatever government is in power in order to carry out instructions that they have.
19:57
It may well be that we disagree on certain directions or, or areas of which we don't think is beneficial to the borough and also the residents themselves.
20:10
So we will work with them to find that solution that retains Bro-Broxbourne Borough Council.
20:17
It may be that the evidence that has been gathered that aims of the government may be watered down and move away from perhaps Hertfordshire. That is not what they're looking for.
20:32
So we can only make that arg- We can only make the case that we will want to be a borough, want to be a council, that we stand alone. And the second thing is that if that doesn't happen, then the, the end game
20:49
will be that the bill will come through, the bill will... I mean, at the moment, you've got a white paper, which is a discussion document. It's the thoughts of the government laid down.
20:59
Thoughts of governments always change and move, and it may be that they look at those areas that want to be devolved first, and that will take time, over a period of time, and then they look again at where there are other areas w-which they want to move to devolution or local government reform.
21:19
We're not opposed to any reform like that. We are a changing, evolving borough in our own right and have been for many years, where we work in collaboration with other authorities, which we do at the moment.
21:35
You know, I mean, I can highlight the fact that we work with EPI on legal issues. We work with Harlow on audit and that kind of thing. So we do work collaboratively.
21:47
But at the end of the day, the difficulty that I will have and that residents will have is that I would be compelled to join a single unitary authority or another arrangement that might take place under.
22:03
Because what might happen is that the county might be divided, you know, not into ten areas, but two areas, north and south or east and west, you know, where other authorities can bind together to keep it more local as possible.
22:20
So we will look at every option that is available.
22:25
You know, we're-- At the moment, we're saying no to devolution, no to a single, single authority, unitary authority, but we will be open to ideas and discussions, and that is, you know, sometime, somewhere down the line.
22:40
And yes, I will work as hard as I can to retain the identity of Broxbourne Borough. Well, and that's, that's fair enough. I think the... Your stand against the unitary authority was well,
22:57
um, presented. I think everybody got that. Uh, it was not just covered by us. I think, uh, na- I think- Nationally, it was. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, and, and that is quite clear and understandable.
23:07
I think, uh, many residents, the people we've spoken to, they, they were basically saying how, how is it possible that they w- have to rely on an authority a bit far away in issues that are very local. Yep.
23:22
And they were sort of, uh, opposed to that. I think obviously in alignment with your- See, I don't want my taxes, for example, sent somebody else miles away, and I have no say on it other than maybe one vote.
23:37
You know, I don't want to be a vassal area within this giant authority. You know, I don't want to be a subsidiary, the one vote, and it says, "Well, no, your council tax won't be the lowest in the country anymore.
23:52
We're gonna shove it up to whatever it is." Planning is another one which will be a mayoral decision. So any planning down here, we will have a vote on, but the mayor will decide.
24:05
And so if they wanted to build a block of flats on the entrance to the M twenty-five, they can do that. They can do it, you see. They can do it. And so I don't want to be a vassal state within a large authority.
24:19
I mean, while we can focus onThese local issues being dealt with locally by the people who know the, uh, local circumstances.
24:29
I mean, people can also look at some of the benefits of actually having a, a larger territory, maybe securing funding, investments, and doing bigger stuff.
24:40
I mean, how do you see that if we-- if there is an opportunity for us to have the ability to secure more funding as a bigger authority, whether it's a single authority or whether it's a combined authority?
24:52
And I know exactly where you're coming from. And, yeah, I mean, the-there are opportunities within a form of devolution, and that's why I say I'm not against the principle of devolution.
25:05
Whether it brings benefits, in some respects, it would bring benefits. We haven't seen the detail of that in terms of what government want to move down from central government to, uh, local government.
25:21
They've not always done that in the past, and it is, you know, you can... You know, do you need, for example, all the chief executives around the county? Do you, do you, do you need... Can you reduce that down?
25:36
So there are opportunities within that, and I'm not blind to that reasoning, if you like. But the, the proof of that will come in whatever will be passed down from government and what their plan is.
25:49
I'm not convinced at the moment. I'm not convinced at the moment, and that's why it's important we actually gather the evidence. Will we save that kind of money that the government is talking about?
26:01
I think it's two billion pounds they think they will save through reorganization. But I mean, that's a drop in the ocean- Yeah. -really if you think about it. Yeah.
26:11
You know, drop in the ocean for accountability within your own local area. But, you know, we are a prudent borough. You know, we're not a rocking rolling borough in terms of finance.
26:23
We know how to deal with our finances, and we are... I mean, I was reading a report the other night that will come before the council when we set our budget,
26:34
and there will be a line in there which, you know, pleases me about our prudence and our stability and the way we manage our finances, and that's why we are a, I like to think, a stellar borough, and I see no dissent in that from anybody within the community.
26:53
Before I move on from this area, I-I wanted to call your attention to a story that has been circulated at morning. This is about local plan and core strategy. Yes. We've knocked it down the line to twenty thirty-two. Mm.
27:07
So I was working on, when I became leader, I was working on the twenty thirty local plan, and that local plan sets out the vision
27:18
of what the borough will look like, because bear in mind, we, we as a borough are very fortunate to be location, location, location because we're on the...
27:29
We are the front door to London and the back door to Hertfordshire. So we have that, we have that train going all the way through, so we get all the benefits, if you like- Yeah...
27:40
of what London can offer in terms of transport, in terms of access, work opportunity, leisure, all that kind of thing.
27:50
You know, we are fortunate to be location, location, location, and we can build around our local plan for up to twenty thirty, and that's what we did, and much of it is coming through.
28:03
Because bear in mind, when you look at the borough, look at the borough, so when we come to do twenty fifty, then we need to look at partners to see how we can collaborate, and we do that, and we are working with five different authorities- Authorities.
28:19
Yeah... to achieve that, pinch ideas, swap ideas, you know, beg, borrow or steal. You know what I mean? It's that kind of collaboration, and that will form the genesis of our twenty fifty vision.
28:33
Because within Broxbourne, if you think about it- Yeah... step back, you think, "Gosh, we're lucky to live here."
28:41
In some respects because we're on the doorstep of London, we're on the doorstep of the M25, we can reach Kent, we can reach Essex, we are the back door to Hertfordshire. We are an Olympic borough.
28:55
We are an Olympic borough, and I remind people of that because we have a legacy of the Olympic borough, which is thriving. I was down there recently talking to their chief executive. Plans are afoot as well.
29:09
But we are an Olympic borough that people still go there in their droves, and we are the garden, if you like, of the Lee Valley Regional Park right on our doorstep.
29:20
We have a history, uh, and heritage in the borough that people would reach out for in terms of royal connections, in terms of people who lived here.
29:31
And the reason being was all those years ago, all Londoners used to live i-in Chessing, uh, because it was out of London. It was smelly and dirty and disease ridden and all that.
29:41
So they all moved out here, and that's why you had James I of England lived in Theobalds Park in Waltham Cross. Charles I was proclaimed King of England at the gates of Cedars Park.
29:53
You know, the Gunpowder Plot, Rye Park, you know, was fermented around there, you see, and, you know, Elizabeth I. And the best jewel in the crown is if you go into the Star Public House.
30:06
I don't know if you've ever been in the Star Public House. No, no, never. It's Wetherspoons in Hoddesdon. Oh, no, no, I haven't been, but I've been outside, took some pictures from outside. Right.
30:16
Does it say the clock, water clock tower. Go inside. Yeah. Because when they were renovating the building- Yeah...
30:22
a few years ago, and Wetherspoon's a very good marketingThey like to take on old buildings and this kind of thing and turn it into a kind of, you know, chic eating place.
30:33
They stripping it down, and then they took a wall away, and then behind the wall there was a mural that had been done in the 1500s, and it was a huge mur- mural of Elizabeth I in all her glory in her clothing.
30:52
Absolutely stunning, and people were stunned by it. And of course, they had to stop work, and all the,
30:59
uh, the curators of museums and all those interests came down to look at it, and they've preserved it so you can actually see it. And then they uncovered a lot more stuff there that...
31:11
So if you ever get an opportunity, go in there, just say to the manager, "Can I take a big photograph?" It's beautiful. The-- it was so good, the Lord Lieutenant, uh, of St.
31:22
Albans at that time, not the current one, came down to see it. She had to come and see it. And she said to me when she arrived, she said, "I've never been in a pub before." [laughs] Countess of Hertford.
31:35
By the beginning of this year- Yeah, sure. By the beginning of this... Yeah. So we're working with them, and the consultation on that finishes at the end of January. Yes. Yeah. Perfect.
31:44
And what we obtained from that will be the genesis for what we do going forward within our local plan. You know, and we will share and swap our ideas, uh, uh, around that because we want to be bigger.
31:58
We want to be better than anybody else. We want people, you know, to... I mean, Broxbourne's on the weather map. Yes, they are. It is. And with the ground. Wonder how it got there. I want people to talk about Broxbourne.
32:13
I tell my people here that, uh, wherever they go on holiday, they go on holiday, mention Broxbourne. You know, talk about Broxbourne, you know. And because there's an old story, isn't there, about Livingston and Stanley?
32:28
You remember that story? Yeah.
32:29
Livingston was the explorer that went missing in the Zambezi or somewhere in the jungles of Africa, and the government was so worried about Livingston that they sent Stanley out to find him.
32:41
Uh, could've been lost in the jungle for months, and they were so concerned. And we're going back to the 1800s, you know.
32:48
And anyway, Stanley was exploring all around parts of Africa where he might be, and after months and months and months, he found him. You know, and that's that famous meeting where they said, "Dr.
32:59
Livingston, I presume," you know, in history. And, but, but Livingston said... So surprised to see a fellow Englishman because he had been away for so long, he asked him three questions.
33:12
And, and whenever two Brits meet anywhere in the world, they always ask about, "What's the weather like back in England?" You know. Or, um, uh, uh, "What's the, the score at Lords?" You know, they always ask that. Yeah.
33:26
But he asked a third one. You know, "How's Broxbourne doing?" Now that's what I say in an after-dinner speech because I want Broxbourne to be out there, and I want Broxbourne to be number one.
33:41
And that is really important. I was going to make, uh, an, an mention of what Brox Town, um, planned to do. When I was trying to start this publication, Brox Town was trying to represent Broxbourne. Yeah. Right?
33:59
And obviously, been here for 12 years, and then I thought, "This place is brilliant." You hear that nobody talks about it.
34:06
So these things you just mentioned are the things we're hoping to start making public, not just within, within going to London and talk about Broxbourne. Yeah. So that people come, come out of London and see Broxbourne.
34:21
Yeah. There are so many things we need. But then obviously, that one is on the side. I al- also- But it is, but it is about putting it on the map. It is about getting people to talk about it.
34:31
And, and I want that, you know, because I'm proud of my, of my town and of where I come from and where I live.
34:38
You know, I may not have been born here, but I've lived here over 40 years, so therefore, you know, I, I have a stake, if you like, in, in, in Broxbourne as, as my town. And I want to highlight all the good things.
34:49
I'm not saying we are perfect, you know, because there are lots of things still to do. But we are entrepreneurial. We have won honors in, in relation to that.
35:02
You know, even if I took you through to our trophy cabinet, national awards that we've won, and I want to kind of pump that out and let people think, "Wow." I used to always t- teach my children, "Always look up.
35:18
Never look at the ground. Always look up," and you see the roofs of houses of the Tudor or Victorian times, and the roofs are still there.
35:27
You know, always look up, always be inquisitive of where you come from, because you'll be absolutely amazed about what's in Broxbourne. I mean, for example, you remember, um, Captain Bligh, Mutiny on the Bounty?
35:43
Now, you remember that? Mutiny on the Bounty was a, um, a, a British sea captain in the 1700s- Yeah...was sent out to go and find, uh, a fruit. Breadfruit. Breadfruit it was, you know.
35:57
And around Tahiti and all that kind of thing. But he was a bit of a tyrant captain, and the crew mutinied. Very famous, and they put the captain in the longboat and set him adrift in the middle of the Pacific Ocean.
36:11
They took the Her Majesty's ship to a tiny island called Pictair- Picton off the New Zealand/Australian coast. Tiny dot of an island. Still there, and it's still got the descendants of the crew.
36:23
There's only 37 people on the island now, [laughs] you know, because it's never repopulated. But they landed there, and Christian Fletcher-Was the lead. And I say that because all the mutineers were captured.
36:39
The captain eventually got back to England, and there was a court martial, there was a film made of it, Gregory Peck was the s- the captain, and uh, all that kind of thing. But Christian Fletcher's brother was a judge,
36:55
and he fought to clear his brother's name. So Christian Fletcher's brother is buried in the churchyard at, in St Augustine's at- Right... at, in Broxbourne.
37:08
And you know, it's a famous connection, but there are lots of connections like around the borough. So if you dig deep enough, then you'll find it, you see.
37:17
Looking for historians who can point us to that so we can revive it and bring it up so that it'll be easily accessed. Well, the person you need to talk to is my heritage officer.
37:28
So my heritage officer I appointed when I became leader a second time, I did the first time around, but I appointed one of my councilors to be the heritage guru, and that's Councilor Taylor, David Taylor.
37:43
And so if you wanted to talk to him, you know, he, he, he can tell... I mean, there are lots of stories about this borough people wouldn't believe has gone on in this borough over the years.
37:55
The English martyrs, for example, who had a different Christian belief during the time of, something of the date 1500s, roundabout there, about Catholics and Protestants. Christian, yeah.
38:07
If you didn't follow the faith, then you were persecuted. And people were burnt at the stake for it.
38:14
And the 12 English martyrs or 13, 12, 13 English martyrs were arrested and taken to London, where they were questioned by the Bishop of London- Mm-hmm... and blah, blah, blah.
38:27
And they were all sentenced to death, and they were all burnt at the stake in, in Stratford, and there's a memorial there to their, to their heroism. But two of them came from Broxbourne. They were blacksmiths.
38:41
One in Hoddesdon, in Amwell Street, there was a smithy there, and the other one was in Waltham Cross, and they are the 12 English martyrs. So two of them...
38:52
You know, I mean, all that kind of thing- No, when I was speaking with David- Yeah... sort of things. And the Lowood Museum, must go to the Lowood. Oh, I've been to Lowood. Yeah. David Dent is another person.
39:04
David Dent is the chairman of the trustees there, and he is our local historian. You know, whereas I, I get my people to promote, he is the guru, he is the real guru. David Dent, chairman of trustees at Lowood.
39:20
I remember speaking with, was it Sharon? Siobhan. Siobhan, Siobhan. Siobhan. Yeah, so Siobhan So he's one of the trustees- Other trustees... yeah. Right. But David Dent- Yeah... is the local historian.
39:33
David Dent, lives in Wormley. But there is so much in the borough, and it's important that we tease that out, and as you say, put you on the map, you see. Right.
39:43
I mean, I always get told off because I, wherever I go, I take a copy of Our Broxbourne. Have you got Our Broxbourne? Yeah, I leave a copy everywhere. So people are sitting somewhere, they pick it up- Say, wow...
39:57
you know, in Newcastle, will think, "What's this?" Yes. We have reached a, a point where I wanted to just get confirmation from your point. I guess what you're saying is unitary not so much, not...
40:10
It wouldn't be beneficial. You can't see how it's been beneficial. I can't see where the benefits- Where the benefits are. But other options are still up for consultation. Yeah. And I'm not blind- Yeah...
40:22
to other options. Yeah. And I will listen to them. But the option that, that for me is a red line, for example, if, if a- as it is at the moment, a red line for me is our, we deal with our own planning,
40:39
we deal with our own taxation, how we, how we set our council tax, how we set our fees and charges and, and, and that kind of...
40:50
You know, these are red lines for me, for Broxbourne to deal with and not for other people, so that, you know, that those decisions are taken locally and not elsewhere. You know, we can deal with the strategic stuff,
41:06
you know, as I said earlier about adult social care, children's services, highways, big, you know, issues. But no, where there is, where there is red line, there will be my red lines and...
41:20
But I'm, you know, I do not have a tin ear, and I will not turn cro- uh, uh, the, the o- the other cheek to say, "I'm not going to listen."
41:30
What is the plan at the moment to get residents involved in this sort of consultation? Well, I'm waiting first to see what the government come out with in terms of what they want.
41:42
Clearly, from my point of view, at some stage, uh, you know, we will ask the question of our residents, our stakeholders, our partners because there are a lot of people involved in this. Businesses, for example.
41:59
You know, do businesses want to deal with, with the Broxbourne Borough Council locally, you know, to get that need of what they want within here, or do they wanna talk to
42:12
somebody, I don't know, Peterborough or, you know, whoever will be dealing with the business. Businesses also are very important, and businesses like certainty. They don't like uncertainty.
42:23
And they come to Broxbourne because they know that it is location is good, transport connections are good, schools goodWay of life.
42:38
I mean, we have a catchphrase of beautiful Broxbourne. That is my mantra, that we are beautiful Broxbourne. And that's one of our corporate plans is beautiful Broxbourne. And we're a borough that doesn't
42:53
flip-flop around, you know, politically. You know, we're not a, you know, how can I put it? We're a stable political entity. You know, we're not a party that...
43:07
Sorry, we're not a, a, a place that suddenly or one party one year, then another party the next year, then it goes again, then it's, and then it's a coalition and then... It's stable all, all the way through.
43:19
And I like to think the reason being is because, is because just making sure no one trying to kick me out, that, you know, we had that stability, you know. So no to single unity reauthority.
43:33
I'm not opposed to de- devolution if other people want it, but it's not for us.
43:38
I want to keep Broxbourne Borough Council as their own administration, but I won't turn a deaf ear or a tin ear to, you know, what if people want to talk to me in the right sensible way, and I will be absolutely as strong as I can in, in, in regard to that.
43:56
Absolutely. I want to say thank you for the opportunity you've given us- Yeah... to talk, to hear from you and your position on this devolution topic. I believe this is just the beginning.
44:06
There will be subsequent conversations around this topic. Yeah. It's a journey. It is. We've only started that journey, and it will be, uh, you know, I think a long journey and a long journey of discussion.
44:18
But I want as many people as possible to be part of that discussion. And it's not central government dictating or somebody else dictating, or me dictating.
44:31
It, it's, it's what the consensus of people want, and I will put that case.
44:36
But unfortunately, they may have to drag me kicking and screaming, you know, uh, uh, i- into their tent, and I don't think it's the right place to go. I was going to say,
44:48
I was gonna ask you what do you think the legacy, your legacy would be as we enter this journey? I do not want to be the last leader of Broxbourne. Thank you very much.
45:01
I think the readers and the listeners of Broxtown across the entire Broxbourne Borough clearly understand your position. Yeah.
45:08
And they, they will understand the reasons you've put together, the reasons why you have that position.
45:14
And then if that position was to change, it would be as a result of maybe you have enough evidence, maybe there is something else you are not aware of, like I said, you haven't got a tin hat.
45:24
So you may not know, but then maybe if you were to know- Tin ear... tin. [laughs] Yeah. I've always got a tin hat. [laughs] Well, anyway, yeah. I think your, your, your- Why hasn't, why hasn't my bin been collected?
45:38
You know. So I've always got a tin ear hat. A tin hat. And why is there rubbish on the road? On the corner. So I always have a tin ear. Brilliant. I, I'm really glad that we had this chance to talk to you. Yeah.
45:48
No, no, no. I, I want people to realize how strong I will be, was. Yes. And, uh, uh, I'm not going to roll over. I will fight for the people of this, you know, for my people. You know, I'm part of them. I, you know...
46:04
I mean, it's y- you know, it landed on my desk, and I've got enough on my desk- Already... already, and this is a big one- It's a big one... that will change the face of how, potentially, of how we operate and work.
46:16
And it will affect the lives of people, you know. And, and it's a big deal, and you have to have a big, uh, counter to it if you don't believe in it, you know.
46:27
And I'm not going to roll over until I know exactly how the people will be treated. You know, that's so important. But there we are. That's me.
46:37
Well, I can say- I wear my heart on my sleeve because I, you know, 'cause I want to, you know. No, no. That makes sense. I think the people of Broxbourne will appreciate your position.
46:47
I think you haven't all changed, and I think that's one of the things that people love Broxbourne, will continue to love about you. Yeah. Like you said, this is a journey. Yeah.
46:58
I, I was gonna say, when, when you mentioned the word love, yeah, I mean, we love Potters Bar. We love Cheshunt. We love Waltham Cross. You know, and we had those trap lines and those banners that- Yeah...
47:10
demonstrate, uh, our love for this borough. And also, that's why one of our, you know, strong tenets, if you like, uh, for this borough is beautiful Broxbourne.
47:21
You know, and that's part of our corporate plan as being beautiful Broxbourne. And I will work tirelessly, and so will my colleagues. It's not, you know, it's not me, it's my colleagues as well.
47:32
I'm fortunate to have such good counselors working, uh, with me, uh, who support me and turn the borough into something, you know, wow, I wanna go there. I wanna live there. I wanna work there. I wanna play there.
47:46
You know, I want to settle there. And we've got the green parks, you know. And people from London come over the border, you know, 'cause our parks are brilliant. Cedars Park, Bartrey, Grundy Park.
47:59
We just opened Grundy Park back to its Edwardian day, you know, and I'm after the graffiti at the moment. Yeah. I am after the graffiti. No stone will be left unturned- Unturned... till I find him or her- Yeah...
48:16
that is doing it. And yeah, because it, not only does it, you know- Change the face of- Yeah. The, the, the area that- Yeah... that it costs a lot of money as well, and time, and I am determined to find that person.
48:32
So that's another story. I was going to say on that, on that note, we're gonna leave it here. Yeah. ButWe will be catching up with you again later. Yeah. Yeah. On- To see the progress... other subjects. Yeah. Yeah.
48:44
Oh, on other subjects. On other subjects. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a lot of subjects that we would like to also explore. Yeah.
48:50
Like how do we take advantage of AI to position this entrepreneurial spirit that is in this...
48:58
There are areas in schools where we believe can be, you know, turned around to represent a, a bigger body of entrepre- entrepreneurs coming from Broxbourne.
49:10
There are areas in terms of maybe our garbage collection, theory, et cetera. And obviously, like we said, bringing back those stories about Broxbourne. Yeah, yeah. About the heritage of Broxbourne.
49:22
So those conversations will come later on. Yeah. But I want- And, and they are very important and very close to what, uh, I want people to know about and what we're doing.
49:31
I mean, our enterprise center down at, uh, on the A10. Yeah. You know, I don't know, have you been there? Yes, been there a few times. It's fantastic, isn't it? Mm-hmm.
49:40
You know, and I, I decry anybody that doesn't have something like that. Of course, it's got the Vow people down there who, you know, do the nutrient drinks and all that kind of thing. Yes, yes, yes.
49:51
You know, that supply- That was sports drink or English, yeah... the, the, the, the Olympics, you see. And it's Yeah. And we've got some hidden gems in the borough.
49:59
So the entrepreneurism, how we can then tap into the AI future is very important. We don't want to be left behind. You know, that is very, very, very, very, very important.
50:10
But there are other subjects, and that's why I say to you, I've got enough in my in- There's a lot going on... particular inbox. Yeah. And it's happening to get this landed. Yeah.
50:20
And I'm thinking, "Hold on, hold on, hold on." We got so many things going. That's not what I'm working on. It's not what my plan is, you know, 'cause we are in a booming borough. We're 100,000 people in the borough.
50:32
You know, we can't... You know, we, we used to always be a transit borough where because we have a straight line, we have a straight line- Yeah... that goes down the old road. The A10.
50:43
Well, the A10 now, but the old road, the road that the king went down with Queen Eleanor, and everywhere they stopped overnight- Fantastic... they built a memorial. Well, ours is an original, still there.
50:56
The original one at Charing Cross. The one at Charing Cross is... There's only three in the country. So yeah, but that line, people used to come over from Enfield, freezy water, you know, move into Waltham Cross,
51:09
move up the corridor to Cheshunt, move up a bit further to Broxbourne, move a bit further to, to Hoddesdon, and then eventually come out the other end and go to- That's right... places like Ware and...
51:22
But now they all stop in Broxbourne. They don't go out, [laughs] you know. So we're getting the bulls coming in, but not the bulls going out. So our population at the moment is just excess of 100,000. Yeah.
51:34
Well- Boo to them... thank you very much. No, pleasure. Uh, it's been really- No, your thank you very much. No. See ya. Thank you. [gentle music] And that wraps up this episode of the Media Town Voices podcast.
51:43
A big thank you to Councillor Mike Mills Bishop for joining us and sharing his valuable insights on devolution, as well as giving us a glimpse into the remarkable heritage of Broxbourne through his experience as a two-time leader of the borough.
51:57
We hope you found today's discussion both thought-provoking and inspiring. Don't forget, at the Media Town Voices podcast, we are all about connecting you to the stories and voices that make our communities thrive.
52:10
If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe and share it with friends and family who want to stay informed and engaged with local happenings.
52:19
Also, be sure to subscribe to one of our newsletters that is local to you for even more updates and stories from your community. Until next time, stay safe, stay engaged, and remember, the heart of our community is you.
52:33
Thanks for tuning in to the Media Town Voices. [outro music]
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